Even though I neither value the cross as a symbol nor agree that it should be used, I will defend it by saying that the cross is not mocked by Christians. It is the symbol of a martyrdom. Call me crazy, but I think that there is a big difference between mockery and reverence.

^What are you talking about, "hollow invective?" That tirade was full of content. And cliches, yes.

There's a difference between reverence for a martyr by wearing a crucifix and mockery of him. Based on your explanation of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, I believe that you have a limited understanding of the doctrine of the Atonement. I agree that many people's definition of Christianity is absurd, but I am annoyed by people who don't really understand the gospel as it was taught by Jesus Christ, and yet they feel entitled to look down upon and mock believers.

In reply to this comment by hpqp:
In reply to this comment by thepinky:
You're all so eager to mock Christianity that I think you failed to notice how perverse this is. I wonder what's funny about a crucifixion machine. Considering the hundreds of thousands of people that were brutally and indiscriminately murdered in that way, both in the ancient and modern world, a crucifixion machine is about as funny as gas chambers and guillotines. At least gas chambers and guillotines are quick, whereas crucifixion is prolonged torture. Yeah. Hilarious.

Crucifixion was horrible torture, true. So: how many people have you seen lately wearing mini guillotines around the necks, or praying in front of mock gas chambers? How many people do you know, on the other hand, who worship an omniscient god who sent his son/self to get brutally tortured and murdered as a scapegoat for his believers?
Despite christianity's absurdity, millions still believe in it. Sometimes the absurd can only be tackled with more absurd. It's called satire.

I always kind of hoped that the elected officials would sound more intelligent, be more informative, and make better points than the everyday radio talk show host. He didn't need to apologize for his bizarre little gag. He needed to grow a pair and say something of worth. It isn't comforting to me that the reps are bickering like children instead of trying to find a solution that works.

You're all so eager to mock Christianity that I think you failed to notice how perverse this is. I wonder what's funny about a crucifixion machine. Considering the hundreds of thousands of people that were brutally and indiscriminately murdered in that way, both in the ancient and modern world, a crucifixion machine is about as funny as gas chambers and guillotines. At least gas chambers and guillotines are quick, whereas crucifixion is prolonged torture. Yeah. Hilarious.

In all honesty, I do have the paper, but I'm not sure I want to give it to you. Here's why: My professor told me that my paper was one of the top 3 student essays he had ever received, but he edited THE CRAP out of it. I got the paper back, but I still haven't made the changes. They aren't simple changes and it would take me hours. I could give you the unedited copy, but now that I know all of the flaws, I don't want anyone to read it until I fix them. You see my difficulty.

In reply to this comment by gwiz665:
I wanna read that paper if you still have it lying around. I wrote a similar paper on Good and Evil as represented in Lord of the Rings (neerd), which I thought was very interesting. It could be interesting to see your perspective on the concept of evil.

All is forgiven. I hope you will accept my apology, too. I'm floored and humbled by your generosity toward me after all of the unpleasantness that was exchanged between us. You've got a great sense of humor, an intelligent perspective, and an "I don't give a damn what you think of me" attitude that I admire. I'm glad that we can let go of all the animosity and start to appreciate one another. Thanks for your kind words, UP. That was very big of you.

Congratulations on the birth of your son. He's beautiful.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
I want to apologize to you. Having a baby has really changed my perspective; as corny as that sounds, it's true. I don't want to have enmity with anyone, anymore. It's not worth it and it's not healthy.

I want to appreciate you, from now on. You're ballsy, brave and willing to go to the ends of it to stand by what you believe in and those are wonderful and worthy traits to have.

I appreciate your comment, and I understand what you're saying. I once wrote a 16-page paper on the "Problem of Evil," so I understand it a little bit. It took me at least 16 pages to write a sufficient solution to the Problem of Evil, but I feel that I did it. To me the solution is extremely simple, but I can never seem to convince anyone of this. Frankly, I don't have the time or the energy to try and convince you, but I'll give some highlights.

God is a perfect being, yet he is eternally progressing. He progresses through his creations. His creations increase, his children grow, etc. We, as his creations, are extensions of the progression of God. I think that you understand that in order for us to grow or be anything more than biological robots, we must have choice. God allows us to make evil choices and hurt ourselves and each other. He has provided the means for us to learn "the rules," but because of agency, people are free to choose what they will believe. This always worries people when I talk about it. We are all born with the ability to tell good from evil, but many people are never given a fighting chance to be "good" because of the evil of others or for whatever reason. The simple truth is that God is perfectly just. Because he has given us agency and because he will not intervene in our agency, some people do not have the same choices to be good as you or I, but it would be crazy to believe that God condemns people for things that they do not have a choice in. Whatever the inequites of this world that are created by man, God will make sure that all is fair, all is resolved, all is right. People worry about death and despair in this life, saying that a just God would not allow people to suffer so much. But to God, death is not a punishment. This life is so incredibly short in the grand scheme of eternity that it is not hard for me to believe that God will take care of it. If we suffer because of floods and famine, it will be for our good. You might say that people who live their entire lives in poverty are not benefitting from hardship, but God will reward us and make up a million times for our sufferings. You'd better believe that impoverished people are humble, and God has promised to reward the humble and meek. In the scope of eternity, suffering is a blessing. He has promised rewards in heaven for enduring our trials well that are beyond our comprehension. I think that's benevolent.

A couple more things concerning the Atonement. I do not believe that we will be punished or condemned for our sins unless we make them with full knowledge and consent. Even then, we have the chance to repent.

Here's a really corny video that is a brief explanation of why the Atonement is necessary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdc8rKcc4t4

How does sending his son to be brutally executed better equip God to forgive us? Even if it does, how is that a moral thing to do? Did everyone that died before 1AD go to hell? If not, then what made Jesus necessary later?

Like the video explains, in order for justice to be satisfied, Christ had to "pay for" our sins. In the garden of Gethsemane, not on the cross, Christ suffered for our sins. This is a matter of faith that I cannot explain. He was a mortal god, and because of this he was the only one who could suffer all of that exquisite pain. It had to happen the way that it did because Christ had to suffer as we will suffer. He had to

1. Have a body, because we have bodies
2. Be separated from God, because we are separated from God
3. Die, because we will die

It was moral because Jesus volunteered and knew what he was doing. And of course everyone before 1AD isn't going to hell. Time is a mental construct. The Atonement pays both past and future debts. Another thing is that we are not punished in eternity for mistakes that we make in a limited amount of time. If we do not repent, we have to pay the debt for our own sins instead of Jesus doing so, and then all but the vilest of sinners will be rewarded. I believe that only those that have a perfect understanding and knowledge of God and then deny him will be cast off forever. And maybe a few other really, really bad people. And that's almost no one.

I'm not done and there are lots of holes, but I want to go to bed. As a general rule, if something about Christian doctrine seems unjust or unmerciful or illogical to you, it is probably because it is wrong.

In reply to this comment by xxovercastxx:

Parts of that were funny, but is anyone else annoyed by Bill Maher's smug little face?

And I don't mean just in this video. I hate his stupid face all of the time.

1. Just before he began to explain that seagel is biodegradable and edible, I was thinking, "I wonder if it tastes good."

2. StukaFox: "Everything in this room is eatable. Even I'm eatable, but that is called 'cannibalism,' my dear children, and is in fact frowned upon in most societies."

"Eyebrows coming down, smoke goin' up..."

I'm surprised by how much this made me laugh. That would be cool if one eyebrow could express my surprise, and the other my amusement.

It's funny that he mentions FedEx, because if UPS lobbyists, Teamsters, and the US government have their way, FedEx WON'T be able to compete.

http://ir.fedex.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=388559

Dude. This video is BEGGING for a soundtrack. And possibly some dubbing.

I agree that science, logic, and respect for others are essential to good society, but the right interpretation of Christian doctrine should encourage these things, not reject them.

"Religion" is not synonymous with "Protestant Christian," and your personal bad experiences with religion do not prove that all religion is harmful. It's funny how you just sort of skipped over the second part of my sentence, "However, religion isn't harmful in and of itself, but the watering-down and misuse of doctrine is, yes, extraordinarily evil and damaging to both straight and gay people."

When I refer to the "watering down" of doctrines, I'm verifying what you said. It seems like most Christians today have no concept of the fact that faith does not have to be removed from logic, tolerance, and an open mind. "Faith," for some people, is a word to throw out when someone asks you a hard question. I do believe in faith. You and I both know that there are things that human beings don't and/or can't understand. Whereas you write faith off as belief in the supernatural, I believe that faith is belief in things that follow all of the laws of the cosmos, but that are beyond our power, knowledge, or understanding. Faith is not necessary for the purpose of dismissing science and logic. It is necessary so that we can have choice. People are always arguing with me about choice, saying that a god who threatens damnation is not truly offering choice. Well, that's a discussion for another day.

When religious people think that morality is black and white, when they are hateful, intolerant, or bigoted, they obviously don't understand Jesus Christ AT ALL. So when I say that religion is not inherently harmful, your 37 years of experience, I'm sorry to say, do not exhaust all of the possibilities religion has to offer.

Yeah, countries that base their government on science and logic instead of Christianity have GREAT track records! Okay, I know there was no call to get sarcastic. I agree that science, logic, and respect for others are essential to good society, but the right interpretation of Christian doctrine should encourage these things, not reject them.

"Religion" is not synonymous with "Protestant Christian," and your personal bad experiences with religion do not prove that all religion is harmful. It's funny how you just sort of skipped over the second part of my sentence, "However, religion isn't harmful in and of itself, but the watering-down and misuse of doctrine is, yes, extraordinarily evil and damaging to both straight and gay people."

When I refer to the "watering down" of doctrines, I'm verifying what you said. It seems like most Christians today have no concept of the fact that faith does not have to be removed from logic, tolerance, and an open mind. "Faith," for some people, is a word to throw out when someone asks you a hard question. I do believe in faith. You and I both know that there are things that human beings don't and/or can't understand. Whereas you write faith off as belief in the supernatural, I believe that faith is belief in things that follow all of the laws of the cosmos, but that are beyond our power, knowledge, or understanding. Faith is not necessary for the purpose of dismissing science and logic. It is necessary so that we can have choice. People are always arguing with me about choice, saying that a god who threatens damnation is not truly offering choice. Well, that's a discussion for another day.

When religious people think that morality is black and white, when they are hateful, intolerant, or bigoted, they obviously don't understand Jesus Christ AT ALL. Religion is not inherently harmful, and your 37 years of experience, I'm sorry to say, do not exhaust all of the possibilities it has to offer.

>> ^ABTechie:
In response to thePink,

I have been going to church for 37 years and I can tell you religion is harmful. It is an oversimplification of decision making and morality. This is right and that is wrong and we have God to back up what we say. This leads to intolerance and an unwillingness to explore different views. Churches and theologians do not rely on scientific advances that help us understand why people do what they do. They know their rights and wrongs. They don't care about hormones, pheromones, cognitive developement, cognitive biases... They already have the answers from God.

A religious upbringing and a religious wife have made my life and sex life more difficult and less happy than it should be. It amazes me that Christians think they get their sexual morality from the Bible. The hypocracy found in the Bible and with Christians is one of the reasons I am no longer a Christian.

Science, logic, reason and respect for others will produce a far better society than religion.