^
I'm not a big historian, but it seems to me that I remember that the Founding Fathers (yes, they were all men) had a heated debate when they were deciding who could vote.

Anyone? Or did you have to be educated? Own property?

Guess what they decided?

Yep. Democracy, not meritocracy. Representative democracy, to be accurate.

And you can have capitalism without a voting booth.

So you enjoy these "debates"? Huh. It doesn't seem like a debate to me. The topic keeps changing. Sparring, maybe. Sparring on quicksand.

It does have its delights.

^
Another problem with the internet?

Can't really have a discussion. Everything turns into dueling monologues. Oh well.

I didn't bring up my aunt to tug on your heartstrings. I brought her up as an example of when it's time to let things drop.

>>>I don't like that she can take that ignorance into a booth designed for intelligent, informed people.
Voting booth wasn't designed for intelligent informed people. We live in a democracy, not a meritocracy.

We aren't going to agree. We see the world differently. I'm tired of this exchange. I suspect you're tired of me.

^
You just can't see her as a human being, can you? You have to punish her for being stupid. What is that about?

And yeah, I think you are hiding behind the avatars. Why is my logic faulty? Just because you say so? My own bullshit test is to ask -- would you say the same thing to someone's face?

And talk about faulty logic -- why are you bringing McCain into this? He isn't stupid or confused. He's on the stage running for president. He doesn't get a pass from me.

Look, I don't like what she said, either. I am scared by the number of people who believe the lies told about Obama.

But if you and folks like you continue this cycle of violence against each other when we don't agree, we are heading for a dysfunctional and increasingly hateful society.

It is in your power and only in your power to treat the next person well.

Tell me how you are different from this woman? I see you both as fearful - lashing out - incurious - unforgiving - intolerant of "the other."

Would you want your grandmother to be inundated with hate mail and hate phone calls?

I was talking to my aunt yesterday on the phone. She is in charge of elections and registrations for a small rural county in a deeply red Southern state. She told me that they registered more voters in the past two days than all of last year. In the middle of her story, she also told me that it was a bunch of niggers registering.

Normally, my response to this sort of thing in my family is to say "I can't control how you talk. But if you are going to talk like this, I will leave the room." I have hated this kind of talk my whole life and have always fought it.

But my aunt is sick. She is probably at the end of her life. She is in the middle of her third fight with cancer and I don't think she is going to get through this one. She, too, is older -- older than this woman. She is retiring soon.

Do I get into it with her? What good does that do? Twenty years ago, yeah, I'll get into it. But it served no purpose to fight that battle with her under the circumstances.

Same with this woman. What good does it do to punish her? How is the world a better place? What does it accomplish?

Especially if you are hiding behind your avatars and anonymous phone calls and a choking cloud of self-righteous anger. That is just ugly.

>> ^thepinky:
She's 75 and they're sort of bullying her.


I love the internet for all the great things it has brought to our lives, including Obama being so close to the presidency. Wouldn't have happened without the internet.

I am dismayed by the internet when I read some of these ugly comments. The lack of empathy of a fellow human being that is often shown here is distressing to me.

Thepinky gets it -- she's old and confused. Imagine this poor woman. Just take a second and imagine what it might be like for her right now. She clearly doesn't understand the consequences of answering what she perceived to be a polite question -- what's your name. Gee, how do you spell that? She doesn't know that this might be going into millions of houses, filled with irate and unfeeling jackasses who think it is okay to harass a senior citizen.

So here she is, sitting at home, and I'm thinking she is getting inundate with hate mail and hate and pranky phone calls. I hope that I am wrong. SHE IS OLD AND CONFUSED. What do you think is going through her mind, what do you think she is feeling?

Oh yeah, I forgot. She's just a sack of skin to some of you. Not a person with feelings, and children and grandchildren.

She was ignorant enough to give her name. The shameful act is the posters, who put it out on the internet when they could have bleeped it out.

I fear they did a terrible thing to this old woman. A terrible thing.

I am deeply disturbed at the fact that they are getting her to give her name, hometown, and attempted to get her phone number -- and then posted the video on YouTube. It seems like they are deliberately trying to get this woman inundated with hate mail.

She's ignorant and fearful and not very smart. And she doesn't deserve being hounded by every yahoo who gets mad at her and her views.

This is the tyranny of the internet.

I hope and pray this poor woman isn't being attacked. I can just imagine her not understanding why all these people are calling her and sending her hate mail. Sitting at home, clueless.

These young people should be ashamed of themselves. They could easily have bleeped out the details before posting.

I ran out and looked at it.

The mustache? There is ONE millimeter long hair that you have to search for. Yes, the wrinkles show up -- and I thought they were kinda pretty. She's not 20. Thank god she has wrinkles.

This is a NON STORY.

It seems clear to me that even the folks at this rally knew this was a bunch of hogwash. Pretty desultory response she got.

Is the black guard behind him hyperventilating? Does he think OJ was railroaded?

Why is this particular clip bothering me so much???? It isn't that much different than all the other crap she lays out there. Sorry. Lies. The lies she says over and over again.

Obama is DISQUALIFIED from consideration of the presidency?

She is disgusting. And a bully. And a liar.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html

Factcheck.org lays out some facts.

I have been trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with Palin. Is it the "handlers" who tell her -- never be specific -- use these phrases -- and she is so overwhelmed by those voices in her head that she can't answer a simple question?

After listening to this three times, I have decided it is worse than that. I think she is so quick to take offense, she is so quick to defend herself, that she sees a trap everywhere. She took this question as an attack, tried to defend herself, then turned around and attacked Couric. "We have magazines in Alaska, we're not a backwater" -- no way was Couric trying to say that. She was trying to get a sense of who Palin is -- the POINT OF THE INTERVIEW.

It has been reported that Cheney requires that when he goes to a hotel that the TV is tuned to Fox News. Bush has said that he listens mostly to Fox News. Couric, I think, was trying to see if Palin is a Fox News Junkie (um, Fox News Blindered Information Rejecter) or what. Time Magazine? US News and World Report? The Nation? All these publications have a slight bias and her choice of reading matter would give the American people a glimpse into her personality and bias (as if we don't know it already.)

Palin's defensiveness and quick-to-attack-mode is what is compelling here.

She's not stupid. You don't get to where she is by being stupid.

She also SHOULD NEVER BE NEAR THE OVAL OFFICE.

Pray for us all. My 84-year-old engineer military father still loves her. He's not alone.

Waaaaaaaaaaaay too long, dupe or not, but I upvoted for the SPANKING that kitty gave that thing. Spank it!

Fox News. Fair and Balanced.

That is the most brown-nosing, b.s. question in the history of brown-nosing, b.s. questions.

How do these people live with themselves?

This was a great post.

However, don't you think there is a possibility that she left that church because she had state and national aspirations and she knew that church would be too radical?

I really, really, REALLY want to know if she believes in dinosaurs and that the earth is millions of years old. If she doesn't, I DO NOT WANT HER in the Oval Office. Not in charge of the science budget.

I know that religious views aren't important. But when religious views can severely impact national policy, then the gloves are off. Not off limits.

You wear funny underwear like the Mormons do? I could care less. You think the earth is 6000 years old? I have got a serious, serious problem with your ability to make rational decisions on behalf of our nation.

Here's a small world. The guy that says "well, they ain't leaving" -- I went to high school with him. He was the boyfriend of my best friend. And HIS best friend went on to be a cult icon -- Jeffrey Combs, star of Re-animator and many HJ Lovecroft movies and created many different characters in the several of the Star Trek series. Six degrees of separation, pretty cool, huh?

This guy in this scene was the only actor to appear in all three Porky's movies. Which of course meant I had to watch all three Porky's movies. Oh well. What we do for friendship.