Enough with the public forum siftquisitions. Send the admins an email or profile message. Talk like an adult to the wingnut idiots and say, can you please give up your childish racist remarks...

What does "banning" do? You think they can't come back? Was he given a warning? Yes, those comments should be user-moderated, and they will be in Sift 3.0, but for now, can we try to ignore his rude comments and use of the word "muzzie". When does this end? Lets go back through all the comments in the archive and start cataloging all users... This is the internet and videosift is AMAZINGLY well behaved for some many viewer (if not maybe active commenters). One problem you may not be considering is that illegal comments must be removed, but it is a tricky situation to start removing users and comments who say things people don't like. For one thing, once you remove one comment or user, you are obligated to spend a whole lot of time policing ALL comments and removing them all. That's why user moderated hidden comments is about the only thing that works (ala slashdot)

(I personally think Rottie is a sock puppet account..)

I don't know about an instant ban, but a redaction and an apology is in order. Failing those, perhaps we should figure out some kind of progressive punishment, or something.

I had responded to that thread before I read this post. I hope I wasn't out of line in the response. I think banning is a bit harsh and they'll always come back. So yeah, I agree with joedirt on this. Though looking at his comments on other sifts, he sound more of a troll than anything else.

Why not just let people make asses of themselves. I don't see why everyone wants to call "BAN!" When some asshole makes an asshole comment. It reflects on the asshole user and makes them, you guessed it, an asshole. I fail to see why we have to go on a moral crusade every time we disagree with someones asshole comment. Just let them be assholes

What's a sock puppet account? Wouldn't the admins notice if someone was making multiple accounts?

Would they notice if you were not a large black man? I doubt they are scouring the logs to match up IP addresses (which smart people can get around). Sure, when they get five spamvertising with autovotes from newly created accts, they check on the accts, but they are too busy to notice what 99% of the users are up to.

How dare you expect people to treat other cultures with respect? That's not what this country was founded on!

For the last time, VS is a commercial venture (isn't it?), and the speech is only as "free" as the venture allows. There's an untapped market out there somewhere for bigots and threatening speech, and I think it's genius for the site to give them a place at the table.

In that spirit, I leave you all with a resounding "kill whitey"!

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

We do monitor IPs for comments, posting and voting - or I should say SiftBot does via periodic scripts.

We've always said that VideoSift is a meritocracy. From the very beginning it's been about empowering members to run the community. We don't want to be a top-down AdminSift.

We know that there is a hole in the commenting area, in that we cannot, as a community, reward excellent comment contributions nor punish poor ones.

That's what we are trying to fix with the new comment moderation system.

i am dreading comment moderation. can't you ban trolly racists and have comment UPVOTES, instead of tolerating trolly racists and starting downvote arguments?

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

It won't be as dire as you (and many others) imagine. It won't be like Digg or Reddit - and as usual around here, its use will be restricted to our meritorious super members.

And, failing that - if it really doesn't work, we'll change it- or get rid of it. We're sure not averse to change around here.

I'm hoping that rather than as a censorhsip tool - it will be used to reward people who really put in the effort on a good comment.

'What does "banning" do? You think they can't come back?'

LOL! No, really, this does not make sense, belive me.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

We can perma-ban by IP address, (and have). But yes, a semi-intelligent monkey can circumvent this. Luckily, there is a correlation between the kind of people we need to perma-ban, and their intelligence level.

banning says "you won't get away with it for long here, try somewhere else"

and they probably do, unless they have some personal vendetta against dag.

anyway dag, good to hear you say what you said about positive encouragement and restricted comment voting capabilities

but is this guy banned or what?
if he's not banned, then i dunno who is.

oh, self linkers of course, scum of the earth, all of them.

I dont get why racial slurs do not bother everyone and tolerance or ignoring it seems to be an option. Its a sick world.

So, a dago, a Lithwhack, a kangy and gimp from Ohio are sitting in a bar.....and a fly lands on the rim of the whop's glass...."Grazie per la pulitura dell'orlo per me, ora....SHOO!

The fly jumps over to the A.I.'s glass...."You know that flys carry germs??? "Bartender!! What kind of insect-infested joint are you running here!!" Can you believe that!!" I'm never coming here again!!!" He gets up and leaves...

The fly then lites on the Litvok's glass, he takes a drink, finds the fly with his tongue, and spits it to his right, hitting the bushranger, in the side of the cheek....

He turns to the Esto and says, "Oi mate, if Ida wanted a raisin, Ida had my grain in a bowl, at breakfast...

Did I miss anyone????

sick indeed.

opinions are opinions, and should be protected under free speech. but "free hatred" is not an opinion, is just a random insult. this should never EVER be tolerated.

if somebody say Mussolini was great because he cleaned the swamps, well, I can disagree, but he has a point, since he really did clean the swamps. That's an opinion which can be challenged with other opinions, leading into a discussion.

if the retarded next-door throws a random "they smell" insult, this does not lead to any discussion. No option other than banning and eventually sueing should ever be considered.

^word. that's one of the best phrasings i have read of the difference between "ban" and "tolerate". nice

The funny thing about all this recent racism this and that conversation, is one of simple semantics. In context, qm's comments are not racially motivated....they are fueled by a disinformation machine that has crafted a scenario based on true false and meaningless facts and non-facts, to construct a desired result.....Ha..You think you, opened-minded, metropolitan city dwellers, university educated, are immune to the same machine, and the results of an effective campaign for your mind, vote, taxes..etc??? Fat chance.....the racial issue here is nothing more than a diversion, and you are all suckers....

Who the hell hates black folks anymore, by virtue of their skin color or social status in the U.S.?...Buncha old fuckers about to die, and maybe their offspring too stupid to live.

Do the Turks hate the Greeks, in 2007, cause one of the other did this or that to grandaddy??? Fucking morons, wake the fuck up, Greek olives are God's own blood and Turkish music, food, and textiles are fucking incredible.....

What in the fuck, would any one of you sifters who care, worry about a racial slur, when you, with your covenience-store morality, will abort an goddamn fetus, fuck a 19 year-old hooker with a condom, eat food that will kill you, or let your child play a first-person shooter game, thinking with your open-fucking mind, that that may afford some imprinting that might fuck him up later in life.....

Seriously, all this talk of racism, senitivity-training, anger management passive- aggressive whining bullshit, is making a nigger tired!!! All you ethnic windbaggers, from all points east south or otherwise, can kiss my taco-bending, coolie ass!!!

eric.. ..racial slurs don't bother me, and should not bother you here, as I have let loose by example with many, as you should be intelligent enough, to understand what I have said, and the remarks with which I have seasoned this stream with, in
C O N T E X T

don't be such a wimp....If I new the origin of your ethnicity, I'd crack a joke....oh wait, they busted the genome innit.....we are all niggers.


Now-If the hive sees a REAL racist on the sift.....screw a rule, a censor, call the fool out in his personal profile, till he wakes the hell up, or leaves like the coward they are.....ADMINS???? Make the real bad ones, dissappear, without incident...hell, its yer site, is it not....no use letting a dingleberry screw it up for the whole group../...

jokes are fine

like i said.....You can't really call the antimocity of the west towards those associated with terror, racism....It is fear and propaganda, not some entitlement issue.....

BA! you can't please everyone. I'm offended by video's that mock religious beliefs or support principals I strongly disagree with. But I don't run around calling for a ban. What about a demotion system. Not a ban but demoting someone might lead to them adhering to the VS 'doctrine' more closely.

What one man sees as racism, the other sees as true, the other as nothing of any consequence. If there is one thing I've learned in life it's that you can't change a prick. They grew up a prick, and they will always be a prick.

read again, more carefully:

if somebody say Mussolini was great because he cleaned the swamps, well, I can disagree, but he has a point, since he really did clean the swamps. That's an opinion which can be challenged with other opinions, leading into a discussion.

if the retarded next-door throws a random "they smell" insult, this does not lead to any discussion. No option other than banning and eventually sueing should ever be considered.

I'm offended by video's that... support principals I strongly disagree with.

What's wrong with principals?? My elementary principal was a kickass guy! If you don't like him, then screw you!

"No option other than banning and eventually sueing should ever be considered."

-- ok, you are unreasonable and I think this must be a joke to see how far you and theo47 can push the idea of banning people based on a few words. THIS IS THE GODDAMN INTERNET! You can't sue people for random comments on a random thread on a random forum. You don't define racism or offensive or who is a troll, so give it up. Even if people were banned based on YOUR sensibilities, someone would come along that is more of a pussy than you and even more easily offended.

most video sites experience racist comments on postings. I am not sure that any comments have been removed from any of them. Banning will not work cause they can come back to site with different name. Comments are valid or invalid.Members have an expectation that they will be able to express themselves on the site.

I like the idea of having an "ignore" function

ok, you are unreasonable

you approve racism and *I* am unreasonable? rotfl.

I am starting to notice a **very disturbing** trend here. It involves those who favor banning slipping into fallacy. You cannot infer that someone "approves racism," or that they are "defending [QM's] exhortations to wipe out entire cultures" from the fact that they argue against using banning as a tool of system administration in the cases at issue. To defend someone's freedom to express their opinion is not the same thing as defending the content of those expressions. If you lack the analytical skills to see this, it is not our problem.

In my opinion, what you have said is not only unreasonable, it is OFFENSIVE. You have essentially called me a racist BASED ON NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. I have said nothing racist in my comments, nor have I ever defended the content of QM's abominable posts. I am merely worried about the chilling effects of banning, and about finding the proper arbiters of what constitutes legitimate speech and what does not. These worries are especially salient to me in light of your glib dismissals of these points when raised by Dag, and your belief that you are somehow qualified to be my protector. Nonetheless, you press ahead undaunted in your certainty that anyone who disagrees is not only wrong, but deserves to be called awful things. How's that for hate-speech, you PRIGS?

In response, LOORIS, I'll say to you exactly what I said to Theo47 on another thread: "you seem like a really nice person who has all the right intentions. But with all due respect, I don't need the likes of you looking out for me. I'm an ex-muslim with family in Mecca. My parents and siblings are still practicing Muslims. If I'm tough-minded enough to put up with QM's bullshit, you should be too. . . .Besides, whenever the guy makes comments like that he turns himself into a laughing stock. Even the other pro Iraq war Republicans are ridiculing him now, on the very thread you are worried about. Personally, that's exactly the kind of ideological opponent I don't mind having around: the kind who says things so damn stupid, he actually makes other like-minded folks wanna switch sides."

Finally, I'd like to point out that Theo47 isn't the only one who's considering leaving. I've only really become an active commenter on the Sift recently, and because I've not submitted any videos, I have no doubt I wouldn't be missed. But if the likes of he and looris get to become the czars of speech around here--and continue engaging in self-righteous name calling and mockery like we've seen in this thread and others--I'll ask that my registry be deleted.

In the meanwhile, NOTA BENE: I will not stand by and be called a racist. If it happens again you better be ready to either back it up, or get embarrassed.

Tofumar

edit: not going to discuss with a pro-racist

I have only one account on this website (not that I need to show you any credentials. Moving from speech police to checking passports, are we?). Don't try and use that as a way to avoid getting called on your BS. And I quoted you in my previous post, as addressed to joedirt, whose side I am on in this debate (though I make no claim that my comments are a substitute for his, nor his for mine). Your response to him was explicit: he--and all those who share his position, if you are to be consistent in the matter--are the unreasonable ones because they "approve racism."

The comment is stupid and offensive for the reasons I point out above. If there's even a small chance I'm being called racist, I respond. Remember that, and try not to play dumb next time.

Not taking any sides here, but remember, we were all new users at one time. It doesn't mean we weren't credible, so Tofumar shouldn't just be ignored.

"edit: not going to discuss with a pro-racist "

Ha! What an ABJECT COWARD! Now those of us who disagree aren't just racist; we aren't even worthy of talking to. Yes, little looris can start a thread attempting to get someone banned, but can't take (even less than) what he dishes out. And he still can't provide any evidence I've said anything racist anywhere on the Sift. You expose yourself, sir.

I don't need to worry about embarrassing you--you've taken care of that all on your own. Had I known you were this slow--or this much of a BITCH--I wouldn't have been so angry.

i got my eye out for all things racist. i can smell them when i read ones gebber jaber. i remeber names when i read somting i think is cool make a mental note. qm and baba O'Reilly are racist bots. should they be baned? no ....that would be being easy on them. but people should continue to put them in there place. post anti racist video that will piss them off. if we post a bunch mybe they will go back to porno and not have any time for contributing to the sift. Hats off to looris for having the radar on. with that said we can all agree racist video, racist titles , racist summarys put you up for the ban

Dag, et. al.

Please nip this shit in the bud...

What I find most disturbing and a threat to the stability of the VS community (more so than off-putting comments) is the recent din of would-be good intentioned sifters acting to alienate and discredit the whole community and sensibilities of the community to weed out trash.

I'm sorry that certain members have found offensive comments from clearly identified trolls, but now they seek to take these extreme positions of "it's them or me"... And then they also seek to position things as "it's them 'racists' or me"... I'm sad to come down on the side of hate speech, but please err on the side of FREE SPEECH rather than arbitrary comment enforcement by yet unknown code of sensibilities of yet unknown keeper of "what is not racist". Illegal or racist content is clearly unacceptable. Threats against individual is unacceptable. Saying I hate Alaskans, or let's bomb New Zealand is not clear where that falls, and who would be the arbiters of free speech.

I fear the constant drum beat of CONCERN TROLLS (look it up) who seek to damage this community. Please come down on the side of people speaking their mind rather than those seeking to control what people can say. Please state for the record that this is a community of GUIDELINES and not absolutes. This is a community of warnings and not a place where people are banned for speaking their mind. This is not a community of thought police and bullies who can cry foul whenever 'they' feel offended.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

OK - I think I've made it pretty clear in this and other threads - no one is getting banned for their distasteful, ignorant, out-of-step views. And as was pointed out above - not banning them does not make us racists, vivisectionists or puppy sodomists.

That said, I empathise with the caller-outers - and their frustration. They wear their hearts on their sleeves and have good intentions. Lets heap no more scorn on them either.

Cool out everyone.

Now they wear their hearts on their profile pics.. They last thing you need is sift police.. Mark my words, this nonsense will destabilize the community and you will lose sifters. I'm usually right about these things.

Hey! I'M the VideoSift police! Get your own damn title!

it's fine by me if you hate all blacks/jews/arabs/christians/dogs/whatever, in fact, i'm interested to hear why.

But if your reasons boil down to ignorance and hate then I wish you'd go to one of the websites I don't go to and be free there.

"They smell" is just not on, and I normally find that if admins clamp down hard on out and out ignorant racism, then it has a positive effect on the forum as a whole. I am only talking about the "they smell bad" kind of arguments, it's the same level as saying the world is flat, except that you hurt and repel a lot more people.

I would allow "arabs cheat in exams, my sister said so and she's a teacher" or "i fucking hate americans, they killed my family" but not "they smell".

This is a nice place for discussion. If you were in a bar and someone was shouting about how arabs smell, you wouldn't stand for it, you couldn't possibly engage him in any productive discussion, and he would be thrown out if he didn't shut up when warned. That's not a bad rule of thumb.

It's not censorship if you're just banning him from your own site, he is free to go anywhere else and try his luck. You didn't call the cops or pass a law sewing his lips shut. It's called freedom of speech, not guarantee of being listened to. You allowed his speech on your own site. Then you deleted it in accordance with your terms and conditions.

Looris put it better than me, but anyway.

Just wondering to see what happens if some pedophiles come out.

You can make your bets.

Please notice in advance that anyone saying that racists are ok and pedophiles are not will be considered plain dumb.

it would be great to discuss pedophilia with a pedophile, you'd all watch THAT documentary and upvote it.

it wouldn't be great to hear that a young member was getting dodgy comments.

is that such a fine line? is it even debatable?