Man Escapes 5 Yr Sentence After Dash Cam Footage Clears Him

Internal affairs had cleared the police of any wrong doing.

Until "good cops" speak up against the rogue law breakers and police departments that will do anything to protect the "bad cops" I view all cops and their departments the same. Looking the other way or ignoring the problem makes all cops "bad cops" and cowards. I'm tired of hearing people say most police are good cops and a few give them all a bad name.
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Evidence from a dashboard camera on a police cruiser ended a nightmare for a New Jersey man facing false charges of eluding police, resisting arrest and assault. Prosecutors dismissed all the criminal charges against Marcus Jeter, 30, of Bloomfield, N.J. and instead indicted two Bloomfield police officers for falsifying reports and one of them for assault after the recording surfaced showing police officers beating Jeter during a traffic stop, according to WABC of New York. A third has pleaded guilty to tampering.Jeter's defense attorney requested all recorded evidence, but the police failed to hand over a second tape until additional evidence surfaced of a second police car at the scene. The tape showed Jeter complying with police, even as one punched him in the head repeatedly.Without the tape, prosecutors had been demanding a five-year prison sentence. -yt
newtboysays...

This is a good example of why I can't serve on a jury...I'm honest when they ask if I'm prejudice against any group, and I then tell them 'I can't believe police because they are trained that it's acceptable to use lying as an investigative tool (to get a 'suspect' to give up information for example), and I don't believe they have the capacity to be a liar sometimes and not others...or, once you've admitted you think lying is acceptable, anything else you say is suspect at best'. I'm always instantly dismissed after saying that.
Videos and stories like this prove that point clearly, in my eyes. They were certain their lies would prevail, and they almost did.

yellowcsays...

It really is scary that they can tamper or restrict access to this sort of evidence.

These tapes should be locked with no access by the the police themselves but in control by another independent body, police can have 100% access to *copies* of these videos but can never be in a position to destroy any of it or restrict it from use as evidence.

Of course the pessimist in mean says this other group will just be corrupted all the same. So perhaps we just carry on with our lives at the whim of power hungry morons and skip the extra taxes to line more pockets.

chingalerasays...

Indeed, a horrible jurist, but it's by reason of this very confession that you'd ACTUALLY make an excellent police officer...errrr cop. Oh, sorry...Enforcement Representative.

Almost certain you'd score above-average in the psyche tests at any police academy.

newtboysaid:

This is a good example of why I can't serve on a jury...I'm honest when they ask if I'm prejudice against any group, and I then tell them 'I can't believe police because they are trained that it's acceptable to use lying as an investigative tool (to get a 'suspect' to give up information for example), and I don't believe they have the capacity to be a liar sometimes and not others...or, once you've admitted you think lying is acceptable, anything else you say is suspect at best'. I'm always instantly dismissed after saying that.
Videos and stories like this prove that point clearly, in my eyes. They were certain their lies would prevail, and they almost did.

jubuttibsays...

Well, I guess technically they could all be released to a public repository, viewable by anyone at any time. Hell, it'd be possible to just have them stream the video live.

yellowcsaid:

It really is scary that they can tamper or restrict access to this sort of evidence.

These tapes should be locked with no access by the the police themselves but in control by another independent body, police can have 100% access to *copies* of these videos but can never be in a position to destroy any of it or restrict it from use as evidence.

Of course the pessimist in mean says this other group will just be corrupted all the same. So perhaps we just carry on with our lives at the whim of power hungry morons and skip the extra taxes to line more pockets.

entr0pysays...

That was bizarre, why would the police officers involved even do that? I get that they're shouting things like "get away from my gun", imagining the camera can't see what's going on or there's only audio. But why bother framing some poor harmless guy? How does that help them?

chingalerasays...

Well entr0py, actions like these earn them douche-points with all their like-minded kinfolk in the douchebag fraternity, and hopefully seals their fate when sentenced for more egregious violations when they finally show supreme ass and get sent upstate where they may even be lucky enough to meet some 'reforming' felon they helped put-away....where there is no camera, and no-one to tattle on a good deed for all of humanity...

Sarah Wallace needs a Junior Anti-G-Man Badge!
Here ya go sister!!

✋✊✋

And to address jubuttib's comment....That should be the job of EVERY citizen who travels the U.S. or (insert police-state here) roadways, to have on-board-streaming, real-time "upload to cloud" systems to thwart the actions of any and all police who chose the lower path.

FUCK the criminals, as they have been handed the power through voter complacency to fuck the citizenry!

Agree with your sentiments 100% eric, btw.

entr0pysaid:

That was bizarre, why would the police officers involved even do that? I get that they're shouting things like "get away from my gun", imagining the camera can't see what's going on or there's only audio. But why bother framing some poor harmless guy? How does that help them?

newtboysays...

My thoughts exactly...then there's no chance to tamper with anything (except the camera itself). Multiple redundant read-only public 'repositories' would be better in my opinion...under different managements.

jubuttibsaid:

Well, I guess technically they could all be released to a public repository, viewable by anyone at any time. Hell, it'd be possible to just have them stream the video live.

budzossays...

I think you guys are onto something. Maybe we should have cameras everywhere recording everything all the time. The government should screw GoPros into the top of our skulls!

CreamKsays...

Arrest quotas and private jails. The latter has a contract with the state and the state has the OBLIGATION to provide full prison. So they make up crimes and exaggerate real ones. Since it's clear that black man gets the heaviest sentences by a a large margin, they are easy prey.

Cops falsifying evidence, tricking, lying and threatening suspects is an ancient tradition in the law enforcement. Even the good cops do it, they just simply believe their own judgement that the person x is guilty so they are prepared to a "little bit of evil". End justifies the means. Even when the person is declared not guilty by overwhelming evidence, they still think "he did it, i'm sure of it".

entr0pysaid:

That was bizarre, why would the police officers involved even do that? I get that they're shouting things like "get away from my gun", imagining the camera can't see what's going on or there's only audio. But why bother framing some poor harmless guy? How does that help them?

jubuttibsays...

Kind of a leap from taking cameras that already exist in police cruisers and trying to make sure the cops can't hide or tamper with their footage, to attaching a camera into everyone's head to monitor what they're doing...

budzossaid:

I think you guys are onto something. Maybe we should have cameras everywhere recording everything all the time. The government should screw GoPros into the top of our skulls!

MilkmanDansays...

@ 3:13 -
"I'm sure that if this happened to me, it could happen to ...
...
...
... a bunch of other people."

I don't want to put words into his mouth, but let's just say what everybody hears there: it could happen to anyone committing the "crime" of driving while black.

@CreamK is right, arrest quotas and for-profit jails are largely to blame for crap like this; well, that and obviously the scum cops who came real close to getting away with it here. I'm a pretty pro-police guy, but a few bad eggs like this can sure cast a stink over a lot of the good guys. Glad they are getting some comeuppance.

Scary to contemplate how often this might happen with the kind of evidence that cleared him either A) not existing (gotta be REAL careful about how much benefit of the doubt we give law enforcement) or B) being successfully hidden and never coming to light. Very scary.

bcglorfsays...

This case looks simpler than that to me. The main officer involved looks to be 90% of the problem and it looks as though he either enjoys power tripping and bullying in general, or equally likely has a hate-on for the victim for some unknown reason(but race is a good first guess).

This is a clear cut example of a criminal in a uniform and a really good reason I'd like sentences for crimes committed by uniformed officers come with much, much steeper penalties than if committed by joe blow public.

CreamKsaid:

Arrest quotas and private jails. The latter has a contract with the state and the state has the OBLIGATION to provide full prison. So they make up crimes and exaggerate real ones. Since it's clear that black man gets the heaviest sentences by a a large margin, they are easy prey.

Cops falsifying evidence, tricking, lying and threatening suspects is an ancient tradition in the law enforcement. Even the good cops do it, they just simply believe their own judgement that the person x is guilty so they are prepared to a "little bit of evil". End justifies the means. Even when the person is declared not guilty by overwhelming evidence, they still think "he did it, i'm sure of it".

Xaielaosays...

He's lucky the police dashcam footage wasn't 'lost' or 'misplaced' as it is in so many other trials like this.

Those cops need to be suspended without pay. They are so sure their fellow officers will back them up, that their chief will hide the evidence that they blatantly do this shit on film and it happens every day around the country.. and almost exclusively against minorities.

I fear this will continue to happen as we continue to turn our police into a paramilitary force.

newtboysays...

We're well on the way to that already, (not really, but I see the point of those that think so). We're just suggesting that the videos they capture should be publicly available, since they are made in public places with public funds for a 'public good'. It makes no sense to leave it in the hands of the one's it often 'captures' lying or committing crimes. That only allows them to hide, destroy, falsify, tamper with, lie about, or otherwise obfuscate their recorded actions. That makes them ALL untrustworthy (I never trust anyone that insists "trust me"), when the solution is so simple.

budzossaid:

I think you guys are onto something. Maybe we should have cameras everywhere recording everything all the time. The government should screw GoPros into the top of our skulls!

poolcleanersays...

I've known cops my whole life -- 1 ex-girlfriend's father, as well as a household of them in my family; serving the church and the state equally. And all of them lawful evil. Assholes with stories about being assholes. I'm sorry, but fuck you if you're a cop.

I don't care if you're a "good" cop. I've watched so-called good cops follow shitty orders and realize at the end of the mess that they had done wrong. This goes on CONSTANTLY; not simply a one-off, "oh cops are people too" scenario.

Not to mention their highway banditry.

Until the current state of police training and enforcement methods are reevaluated and they return rights to citizens, I cannot abide their involvement in domestic disputes and highway enforcement.

Sure, they save us from the evil that men would do, but as they currently stand, the American police force is a bastion and a playground for bullies that want to remain above the law.

And their internal affairs system allows this to persist. No transparency, which means the law is always blurred for their benefit. Luckily evidence beyond a reasonable doubt sometimes surfaces. Sometimes.

Sometimes...

newtboysays...

As long as a majority of cops will stand in a 'blue wall' to protect the worst ones, like happened in this case, yes. When a majority stand against this behavior and call it out publicly when they see it, I'll judge them accordingly.
If a majority of 'me' did the same, I would expect my group to be judged the same. (that's a large part of why I've never been a 'team player', the team expects you to protect/stand with the team, even when they're totally in the wrong)

lantern53said:

So all cops are to be judged based on the worst cops out there.

Ok, well, I'll judge you by the same standards.

ChaosEnginesays...

First things first, these cops are assholes and should be jailed straight away (and I'm with @bcglorf, if you commit a crime while on duty as a cop, you should face extra jail time).

That said, (and god it pains to me to agree with lantern) I still don't think it's fair to tar all cops with the same brush. We don't judge any other group by it's worst members, why do the cops get singled out?

"Because the good ones don't speak up"

Ok, I'll admit this is a problem. But it's really not that simple. If you are a good cop, by definition, you're working within the law. You need to gather evidence, build a case and so on. In practice, that's pretty difficult to do, especially when the bad cops, also by definition, aren't bound by the same rules the good cops are.

Not to mention the social stigma of "ratting out" your colleagues (and that applies in every walk of life), the potential harassment or even threats (again, bad cops aren't bound by rules).

The problem is a cultural one, and it has to change from the bottom up.

newtboysaid:

As long as a majority of cops will stand in a 'blue wall' to protect the worst ones, like happened in this case, yes. When a majority stand against this behavior and call it out publicly when they see it, I'll judge them accordingly.
If a majority of 'me' did the same, I would expect my group to be judged the same. (that's a large part of why I've never been a 'team player', the team expects you to protect/stand with the team, even when they're totally in the wrong)

newtboysays...

So wait, then the other two
1.helping him in the assault
2. helping him falsify 'evidence' (by not saying 'he's not going for your gun' to ruin the fake audio 'evidence')
3. not arresting him for being violently criminal right in front of 2 officers
4. not reporting his conduct and
5. helping him cover it up afterwards only garners them 10% culpability? That seems to be letting them off pretty light in my eyes....when only one robber brings a gun and kills the home owner, they all go for murder...why not for cops?
I'm with you on the 'harsher sentences for those who are paid to uphold the law that break it'. That only seems fair and correct.
EDIT: I think that should go triple for 'hindering prosecution' or 'interfering with an investigation' or any other abuse of their given 'powers'.

bcglorfsaid:

This case looks simpler than that to me. The main officer involved looks to be 90% of the problem and it looks as though he either enjoys power tripping and bullying in general, or equally likely has a hate-on for the victim for some unknown reason(but race is a good first guess).

This is a clear cut example of a criminal in a uniform and a really good reason I'd like sentences for crimes committed by uniformed officers come with much, much steeper penalties than if committed by joe blow public.

newtboysays...

Cops get singled out because it is their JOB, which they are paid decently for, garner respect for (warranted or not), (edit: are given authority because of), and get many other perks because of, to be a "rat" as you put it, or a cop as others would put it. When that's your job, to police people, it's ridiculous to single your group out to not "rat on" or police, especially when some of them are not acting like 'police'.
I understand it, most people won't call foul on their own 'team', I simply disagree that it's acceptable or defendable, especially when that is who and what you are, a 'police' person. It's kind of like being a referee, but refusing to call interference on another referee that catches the ball, to me. Their culture is already set apart in many ways, I only wish they were set apart by a higher moral standard as well (that they live up to).

ChaosEnginesaid:

That said, (and god it pains to me to agree with lantern) I still don't think it's fair to tar all cops with the same brush. We don't judge any other group by it's worst members, why do the cops get singled out?

"Because the good ones don't speak up"

Ok, I'll admit this is a problem. But it's really not that simple. If you are a good cop, by definition, you're working within the law. You need to gather evidence, build a case and so on. In practice, that's pretty difficult to do, especially when the bad cops, also by definition, aren't bound by the same rules the good cops are.

Not to mention the social stigma of "ratting out" your colleagues (and that applies in every walk of life), the potential harassment or even threats (again, bad cops aren't bound by rules).

The problem is a cultural one, and it has to change from the bottom up.

ChaosEnginesays...

Except there's only one referee to a game, they have absolute authority, everything they see is in public and calling interference on a fellow referee will not see them ostracized and potentially harmed by another ref who, let's not forget, has the ability to call fake interference on them

I get what you're saying. Of all the people they deal with, cops should be most watchful for illegal activity in other cops. In an ideal world, they would be (hell, in an ideal world, we wouldn't need cops).

But in the real world, policing is a tough job. I don't know how it is in the US, but in NZ the pay is crap, the hours are long and most people inherently distrust you. It's not surprising that when you spend your days dealing with the worst of society you form an "us vs them" mentality. Not to mention the politicking and other bullshit you have to deal with.

I think most cops are like most normal people; most of them are fundamentally decent, and just trying to get by and do their job as best they can. Maybe they're not happy about certain things in their job, but they feel powerless to do anything about it for fear of retribution.

Obviously the difference is that the stakes are higher. If I fail to point out an uncomfortable truth to my boss, some software doesn't work as well as it could. They're dealing with peoples lives.

I don't know the answer. Cops absolutely should be held to a high moral standard. They are a necessary aspect of modern society. But I don't think the answer is this kind of black and white thinking of "all cops have turned a blind eye to something, therefore they're all complicit". The world is more complex than that.

newtboysaid:

Cops get singled out because it is their JOB, which they are paid decently for, garner respect for (warranted or not), and get many other perks because of, to be a "rat" as you put it, or a cop as others would put it. When that's your job, to police people, it's ridiculous to single your group out to not "rat on" or police, especially when some of them are not acting like 'police'.
I understand it, most people won't call foul on their own 'team', I simply disagree that it's acceptable or defendable, especially when that is who and what you are, a 'police' person. It's kind of like being a referee, but refusing to call interference on another referee that catches the ball, to me. Their culture is already set apart in many ways, I only wish they were set apart by a higher moral standard as well (that they live up to).

newtboysays...

WHAT?!? You've never seen American football, or soccer? Multiple refs. Even tennis has multiple referees.
Yes, they can be counted on to do things right because their actions are public. That mirrors the original suggestion that the police video be streamed online publicly in real time. If the refs could turn off the cameras during the game, and make the stadium 'leave the scene and stop interfering', we would likely see just that, infantile backstabbing and/or a striped wall form.
In the US, pay can be crap, but the long hours can mean massive overtime. There are also usually benefits that make up for the (sometimes) mediocre pay.
I agree, they deal mostly with the 'seedy underbelly of society', which is why I think they should spend some time serving the community as part of their job...of course, they are already understaffed and underfunded, so I don't have an answer of how to make that happen. I just think it would give them a better viewpoint of those they 'serve and protect'.
In the US, the fear is of being CAUGHT. That's the only way they face retribution. By sticking up for each other when one commits a crime, it makes being caught nearly impossible.
Yes, because they have authority I feel they have a moral responsibility to wield it responsibly. They should also have a heavy handed legal responsibility, just in case their morals are out of whack.
The only one's I leave out of the blanket condemnation are those willing to stand against their own when their own are wrong...they are seemingly few and far between, but I do admit they exist.

ChaosEnginesaid:

Except there's only one referee to a game, they have absolute authority, everything they see is in public and calling interference on a fellow referee will not see them ostracized and potentially harmed by another ref who, let's not forget, has the ability to call fake interference on them

I get what you're saying. Of all the people they deal with, cops should be most watchful for illegal activity in other cops. In an ideal world, they would be (hell, in an ideal world, we wouldn't need cops).

But in the real world, policing is a tough job. I don't know how it is in the US, but in NZ the pay is crap, the hours are long and most people inherently distrust you. It's not surprising that when you spend your days dealing with the worst of society you form an "us vs them" mentality. Not to mention the politicking and other bullshit you have to deal with.

I think most cops are like most normal people; most of them are fundamentally decent, and just trying to get by and do their job as best they can. Maybe they're not happy about certain things in their job, but they feel powerless to do anything about it for fear of retribution.

Obviously the difference is that the stakes are higher. If I fail to point out an uncomfortable truth to my boss, some software doesn't work as well as it could. They're dealing with peoples lives.

I don't know the answer. Cops absolutely should be held to a high moral standard. They are a necessary aspect of modern society. But I don't think the answer is this kind of black and white thinking of "all cops have turned a blind eye to something, therefore they're all complicit". The world is more complex than that.

lantern53says...

As a cop for over 30 years I can say this. Every police dept is different. They all have different expectations. If one dept is rotten, it's because the chief is rotten. The attitudes of the PD comes from the top down.

I was stunned when I heard a cop from another dept tell me he used to go around at night and spray pepper spray into a car's windshield vent because the car owner was a known shithead. That's when I began to realize that all police dept. are different.

Cops are reluctant to rat on other cops because cops know that when the chips are down, you can rely on your fellow officers to do everything in their power to save your ass from death and destruction. At the same time, some crooked cops are not going to be crooked 100% of the time, they will also stand between an average citizen and a bullet.

A cop can't be crooked 100% of the time, but he can break the law on occasion. Personally, I have no respect for an officer who will plant evidence or abuse prisoners or anyone else. But then, that's just the way we do things at our PD.

On the other hand, you have to understand that when a cop is testifying in court that he found several severed heads in a car trunk, the judge is going to want him to say it was all a legal search...whether it was or not.

Also, i don't believe cops should get special consideration. Most of them are already well compensated and they shouldn't be in it for the perks.

I'm in it for the adrenalin rush. It's the only job where you can jump over fences chasing a bad guy.

newtboysays...

I understand that, but criminals are not usually acting criminal 100% of the time either, yet they are treated as if they are by police, prosecuted and imprisoned, and ostracized and 'dehumanized' after release by having most of their rights as a citizen removed. It seems that the reality is that we act like once you've committed (or are convicted of) a crime, you ARE a 'criminal' 100% of the time. If it's proper to do that to ordinary citizens because of temporary criminal activity, why not police?
OR...a murderer doesn't murder most of the time, that doesn't mean it should be ignored when they do...especially not because of their 'job'. If a cop is crooked once, he's a crooked cop. Period. (to me)
To your second point, that illustrates my original point exactly. If they (or you) believe it's proper to lie 'in the furtherance of their duties', why on earth would any reasonable person think that would stop on the stand? Since it's unreasonable to believe they would lie right up to that point, but not on the stand, one can not trust anything an officer says on the stand. That's going to be my position until it's made illegal for them to lie to a citizen, at any time. Even then, it's going to take a while for the 'culture' of lying to change.
EDIT: In your example, of finding severed heads in a trunk, you seem to imply that you think it would be the right thing to do to 'placate the judge' by committing the crime of perjury and saying it was a legal search even if it wasn't...If so, why should your testimony ever be given any weight if you think it's OK to just lie in court? If I misunderstood, forgive me.

You say you and your local force doesn't act this way, but I would ask...do/have you lied to/intentionally misled 'suspects' in order to get them to admit what they did? If so, I'm afraid I see you as part of the problem.
I fully agree with you on one thing, I feel this 'culture' trickles down from the top.

lantern53said:

A cop can't be crooked 100% of the time, but he can break the law on occasion. Personally, I have no respect for an officer who will plant evidence or abuse prisoners or anyone else. But then, that's just the way we do things at our PD.

On the other hand, you have to understand that when a cop is testifying in court that he found several severed heads in a car trunk, the judge is going to want him to say it was all a legal search...whether it was or not.

Lawdeedawsays...

I agree with @eric3579 but I go further. I also attribute this to black people and their culture--after all they should be better than crime since their roots come from an afrocentric value background. Def higher standards for them! I also attribute it to women, fat people, disabled people, preachers, teachers, business executives and prostitutes (Since they have a sexual responsibility to all they sleep with.)

Until all these groups dime out each other and expect better of each other, and break the bull-shield, wall or whatever catchy name we make for it life won't get better.

lantern53says...

My example of the severed heads in the car trunk was taken from a book written by a judge. It was his statement that he wanted to hear it was a legal search whether it was or not, because he would not want a serial killer to walk on a 'technicality'. I know that in this case a 'technicality' is the law, but the law changes based on what people want.
I have never lied in court and a cop would be a fool to lie in court because perjury means you can't be a cop and if you lose your job, you lose your pension.

lantern53says...

This is what passes for intelligent and 'nuanced' conversation today.

Talk about a 'rush to judgment'. You people watch one video of cops committing a crime and suddenly all cops are criminals.

You have no clue what police work is.

Mystic95Zsaid:

Just another reason to say "Fuck the Police"....

bmacs27says...

@lantern53 Honestly, you are coming across as very reasonable right now, and clearly you come from a position of direct experience. I'd like to know a bit more about your opinion.

What do you think the police could do to strengthen their public image? Clearly, the institution is not as respected as it should be (that is, it is widely maligned), and I agree, good cops too often get ignored. Do you suppose their poor public image has more to do with a few bad individuals, or is there a more systemic problem possibly with the organization of local departments? I suppose it could also have to do with the laws they are asked to enforce, e.g. marijuana prohibition is notoriously unpopular potentially breeding distrust of law enforcement more generally.

As a follow up, how do you feel concerns about a crooked PD should be handled? Do you trust IA to handle these sorts of allegations for the most part, or are concerns about the "blue wall" justified? Can you think of a better mechanism for enforcing good behavior among officers? Should we just tolerate violent criminal activity in law enforcement because it is rare, and we should "take the bad with the good?"

chingalerasays...

Well I disagree, wouldn't exactly call it 'reasonable'......lantern53 is coming from a position of familiarity with the fraternity though he's quite honest in his motivations for his addictive love for his chosen 'profession', as it provides that calming "rush" of the constant stimulus of adrenal secretions to feed those over-ramped receptors that his habit constantly demands.

He's career, so his attitude ain't gonna change much folks...

He's admitted that he'll 'play-ball' in a courtroom situation to save his job and pension, and plays the frat card again when someone suggests that 'all cops are criminals', which they obviously are (especially in the United States) to any reasonable individual, oh and, when faced with being judged by a reasonable public standard by the people he's allegedly pledged to protect and serve, he'll 'judge' them by a similar, opposite standard, when he sees himself threatened with a realization that they could in fact, be correct in their judgements.

Typical. Programmed, frightened and confused, American, cop.

Yeah man, you night wanna check your shit and decide whether-or-not you're one of the bad ones?? Because you sound like the worst example of so-called 'law-enforcement' to this sinner.

If it squeals like a pig, smells like a pig.....

(Oh, for all you youngsters whose hippie-parents now work for the machine, the term "pig" was used as a derogatory and appropriate euphemism for the police back in the 60s when that dick-less generation failed to shut-down the runaway freight train of human subjugation in the United States.)

bmacs27said:

@lantern53 Honestly, you are coming across as very reasonable right now, and clearly you come from a position of direct experience. I'd like to know a bit more about your opinion.

What do you think the police could do to strengthen their public image? Clearly, the institution is not as respected as it should be (that is, it is widely maligned), and I agree, good cops too often get ignored. Do you suppose their poor public image has more to do with a few bad individuals, or is there a more systemic problem possibly with the organization of local departments? I suppose it could also have to do with the laws they are asked to enforce, e.g. marijuana prohibition is notoriously unpopular potentially breeding distrust of law enforcement more generally.

As a follow up, how do you feel concerns about a crooked PD should be handled? Do you trust IA to handle these sorts of allegations for the most part, or are concerns about the "blue wall" justified? Can you think of a better mechanism for enforcing good behavior among officers? Should we just tolerate violent criminal activity in law enforcement because it is rare, and we should "take the bad with the good?"

chingalerasays...

Don't even know where to begin with the statement, ' I also attribute this to black people and their culture--after all they should be better than crime since their roots come from an afrocentric value background.'

Even if you were hinting at sarcasm, that's a pretty fucking 'clueless-of-history' slavery in the U.S., POV

Afrocentric??? Gimme a fucking break, that's a rarity in black culture in the U.S. because it was systematically beaten and tortured out of the slave-class.

As to the other so-called groups cited well sir, it's your responsibility to associate and that with discretion, with any and all PEOPLE according to your own standards (or lack thereof) of ethics and morality, isn't it??

Life won't get any better for whom?? For youm???

Lawdeedawsaid:

I agree with @eric3579 but I go further. I also attribute this to black people and their culture--after all they should be better than crime since their roots come from an afrocentric value background. Def higher standards for them! I also attribute it to women, fat people, disabled people, preachers, teachers, business executives and prostitutes (Since they have a sexual responsibility to all they sleep with.)

Until all these groups dime out each other and expect better of each other, and break the bull-shield, wall or whatever catchy name we make for it life won't get better.

newtboysays...

I hope that book was written by an EX judge, because that's precisely the opposite of what judge is duty bound to do. The law is not a technicality, and if it is why is anyone ever convicted?
It's this mindset, thinking that the judge, the one that might 'catch' and 'punish' you for perjury actually WANTS you to do it, that allows some (not all) to convince themselves that it's OK.
The law does not change based on what people want, that's simply not how it works. The law is the law, no matter how you feel about it. It may BE changed based on what people want, but it does not simply 'change' as you claimed or seem to believe. That sentiment seems to indicate that the law may 'change' based on what YOU want at the time....that's really scary to hear from a police officer.
IT IS NEVER OK TO LIE. That is especially true if you have authority.
I'm glad you do not intentionally lie in court, but your statements lead one to believe that you might if the circumstances 'warranted' it. (which I believe they NEVER do). Because so many believe what you wrote, they also believe they can perjure themselves with impunity because they are doing 'what the judge wants them to' so the judge won't call them out on it, and then there's no penalty to worry about. That make your sentiment one that causes the issue rather than helps solve it. (If I understood it correctly)

edit: And only being prosecuted and convicted of perjury carries those penalties, and from what I've seen (agreed, I'm not a legal scholar so I don't know the actual statistics) that rarely happens to police.

lantern53said:

My example of the severed heads in the car trunk was taken from a book written by a judge. It was his statement that he wanted to hear it was a legal search whether it was or not, because he would not want a serial killer to walk on a 'technicality'. I know that in this case a 'technicality' is the law, but the law changes based on what people want.
I have never lied in court and a cop would be a fool to lie in court because perjury means you can't be a cop and if you lose your job, you lose your pension.

newtboysays...

This is not the first video of 'cops committing a crime' we've watched here. It was one more example of 'cops committing a violent crime, and their entire force protecting them'. It's the 'entire force protecting them' part that puts all cops in a bad light.
Agreed, to paint all cops in the same color may not be 'fair', but when the majority act this way (in this case it was the entire force AND I.A.) it becomes the good cops responsibility to change the public opinion with their non-self serving actions by going after the 'bad' cops much harder than ordinary criminals. It is not the fault of the public for seeing a clear pattern of unconscionable behavior in a group and disliking it, and eventually disliking the group.
In this case, all the cops involved in any way were criminals.

lantern53said:

Talk about a 'rush to judgment'. You people watch one video of cops committing a crime and suddenly all cops are criminals.

chingalerasays...

and as a way of reminder for any who might care of my own particular line of reasoning on the matter of the police:

All cops will at some time in their career, witness or commit a felony (as witness, by a member of their fraternity or a citizen) being committed and fail to report the same according to law, hence, all cops are felons. Simple approach to logic really, takes no long-winded explanation to render it so in any reasonable person's mind.

What newtboy speaks above being true and false and meaningless on points, however, ALL cops are cops, there is no good or bad when referencing law enforcement 2000+. The good ones use the time spent in that profession to further their reputation and credentials for what it is to have been a cop and bail the fuck out...move the fuck on in their quest for righteous livelihood....

The actual SHIT cops (and ALL prison system employees unless by virtue of some humanitarian position they actually reform or assist anyone), border patrol, coast guard, DEA, DHS, ICE, etc etc.) stay in for the duration, because that bullshit is all they are.

chingalerasays...

And back @ lantern53: "You people??" Fuckng sounds like a cop, distancing themselves form the rabble to justify their own criminal association and feelings of guilt when faced with the inhumanity of the arcane institution they align themselves with. Now show your humanity how about it, and exhibit some remorse or empathy for the common citizenry? Try that on for size please?

I just hope yer not a cop anywhere near my own city...After my recent experience with them, I understand fully the implications of pissing-off some hind-brained adrenaline junkie with a goddamned badge and a court who has the back of their enforcers FIRST and foremost in their interpretation of their 'law'.

newtboysays...

That only makes any sense if these groups are paid to 'dime out' others...so maybe preachers and to a lesser extent teachers...and some priests are also paid specifically to NOT 'dime out' confessors. The other groups don't make sense to me...there's no difference in the moral obligation to fellow humans (or non-humans if you aren't a speciest) based on random groupings as I see it, and so no need to group them in this way to explain their moral obligations.
The black people/culture thing SOUNDS racist, care to re-state?

Lawdeedawsaid:

I agree with @eric3579 but I go further. I also attribute this to black people and their culture--after all they should be better than crime since their roots come from an afrocentric value background. Def higher standards for them! I also attribute it to women, fat people, disabled people, preachers, teachers, business executives and prostitutes (Since they have a sexual responsibility to all they sleep with.)

Until all these groups dime out each other and expect better of each other, and break the bull-shield, wall or whatever catchy name we make for it life won't get better.

chicchoreasays...

...sounds like a felon....

chingalerasaid:

And back @ lantern53: "You people??" Fuckng sounds like a cop, distancing themselves form the rabble to justify their own criminal association and feelings of guilt when faced with the inhumanity of the arcane institution they align themselves with. Now show your humanity how about it, and exhibit some remorse or empathy for the common citizenry? Try that on for size please?

I just hope yer not a cop anywhere near my own city...After my recent experience with them, I understand fully the implications of pissing-off some hind-brained adrenaline junkie with a goddamned badge and a court who has the back of their enforcers FIRST and foremost in their interpretation of their 'law'.

chicchoreasays...

...this, too....

chingalerasaid:

Well I disagree, wouldn't exactly call it 'reasonable'......lantern53 is coming from a position of familiarity with the fraternity though he's quite honest in his motivations for his addictive love for his chosen 'profession', as it provides that calming "rush" of the constant stimulus of adrenal secretions to feed those over-ramped receptors that his habit constantly demands.

He's career, so his attitude ain't gonna change much folks...

He's admitted that he'll 'play-ball' in a courtroom situation to save his job and pension, and plays the frat card again when someone suggests that 'all cops are criminals', which they obviously are (especially in the United States) to any reasonable individual, oh and, when faced with being judged by a reasonable public standard by the people he's allegedly pledged to protect and serve, he'll 'judge' them by a similar, opposite standard, when he sees himself threatened with a realization that they could in fact, be correct in their judgements.

Typical. Programmed, frightened and confused, American, cop.

Yeah man, you night wanna check your shit and decide whether-or-not you're one of the bad ones?? Because you sound like the worst example of so-called 'law-enforcement' to this sinner.

If it squeals like a pig, smells like a pig.....

(Oh, for all you youngsters whose hippie-parents now work for the machine, the term "pig" was used as a derogatory and appropriate euphemism for the police back in the 60s when that dick-less generation failed to shut-down the runaway freight train of human subjugation in the United States.)

chicchoreasays...

...again with paltry deflection, inaccuracies,...aren't you a felon?

Speaks to character, perspective, the whole long list.

chingalerasaid:

All you can do, huh chicco? Treat a dissenting opinion or observation and the messenger as sub-human. Seriously dude, you'd make an excellent enforcer.

Baristansays...

I've seen enough of these videos to know that only a small percentage of badge wearing criminals ever go punished. It's the job of cops to uphold the law and protect citizens. Here is a clear example of a violent crime being committed. If any police/judge/prosecutor wants to be viewed as a protector of justice and not a terrorist in uniform then these criminal members of their fraternal order must permanently be removed, and jailed. Until then all are either guilty of aiding criminals or failing to do there job.

When I was young and first heard those famous lyrics "Fuck the Police" I thought it was childish babble from criminals. After years of life, I have come to the conclusion +90% of police are good people. They just don't do their job, and stop the few that aren't.

lantern53said:

Talk about a 'rush to judgment'. You people watch one video of cops committing a crime and suddenly all cops are criminals.

HenningKOsays...

re: the video.
Jaw on floor. Horrifying. The cops on tape are terrorists. Whatever punishment they got, it was too lenient. My first post-video reaction was, we need to protect those tapes now.

poolcleanersays...

All I have are my experiences. Before I discovered the torturing effects of what is called "The Loop" (a period of time before and after being moved to court for arraignment and the period leading up to being housed in a jail cell) I perceived justice as possible. After I was wrongly put through this system, I have discovered that Justice is possible but not probable; or rather, your probably of justice increases with the amount of money you're willing to put into the justice system when it comes knocking.

I did not have money to put up, so I was put through a near 24 hours of waiting, moving from holding pin to holding pin to holding pin, with only concrete and the beleaguered advice of my new peer -- the criminal -- as my companion. Robbed of your sense of time and perception of beginning to end. When will it be over? How long have I been here? What is the purpose of these events? Am I guilty? Am I in jail? Who are these hardened criminals surrounding me? Am I a criminal now as well?

I was a boy with a bright future and I've struggled to reintegrate myself into society ever since. No one gets it. Depression and a sense of constant injustice are my companion. I wasn't an alcoholic before these events and I never did drugs, but afterwards I have struggled with alcoholism, depression, suicide attempts, all of my personal relationships failed until recently (and still it is a struggle to care about... anyone or anything), drug abuse, and I'm only barely past my yearly, near monthly visit to jail or the drunk tank.

Honestly, I know personal responsibility is important, but I was a fucking clueless child put into a den of thieves. I learned their ways and my nihilistic conclusions are the only bit of optimism that seem apparent in any system. Chaos; anarchy -- my only desires.

But this understanding of the the defects in any and all systems is what has given me an edge in my workplace where we invent new systems every day. That gives me hope, but it is a hope based on the purposeful destruction of systems. I'm good at it. And it protects the powers that employ me.

All forms of government and religion; rules and regulations; city planning and software design -- ALL of it easily manipulated and quick to topple -- like my innocence and sense of JUSTICE...

enochsays...

@poolcleaner
i fucking love you man!

once innocence is lost,
it can never be re-aquired.
disillusion has a sister called cynicism.
a vile woman who seduces her lover "despair" like a desperate dive-bar trollop.

do not engage these corrupt entities,
for they only seek to expose your inadequacies and feed off your fears.
they amplify the conflicting messages we are all subjected to daily.
they rejoice in your anxiety and call it truth.

but thats the lie.

the scattered remnants of a splintered childhood dream,
fed by people who walked in that very dream...
and believed in its seductions...
reveals the truth....of the lie.

grieve if you must,
but allow that lie to sink into the ocean of oblivion and irrelevance,
and embrace the truth.

you are no longer bound.
you are free.

how many can say that with conviction?

*edit*sighs.meant that to be on your page..i am so fail.

Yogisays...

Wait...You've been here since 2009 booting people? How come I don't remember you?! OMG I'm a ghost!

chicchoreasaid:

...again with paltry deflection, inaccuracies,...aren't you a felon?

Speaks to character, perspective, the whole long list.

Yogisays...

You'll notice he has badges for banning people.

chingalerasaid:

All you can do, huh chicco? Treat a dissenting opinion or observation and the messenger as sub-human. Seriously dude, you'd make an excellent enforcer.

ulysses1904says...

Sidenote, it always irritates me how people tend to jack up a story to say he escaped 5 years in jail. As if he had already been sentenced to 5 years. The story has enough real drama, they don't have to lay it on.

Meanwhile in Iowa a 10 year old girl faces 20 years in prison because she didn't pay taxes on the income from her lemonade stand.

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